Choices

Seems like there are three basic choice areas in build:

In 3e parlance, attributes are ability scores, skills are skills, and abilities are spells or feats.

In traditional systems, you add 1d20 + attr + skill mod (true even in 5e, to an extent). This makes the skill choice feel impactful to your numbers.

In 3e/5e, ability choice is not affected by skills; your chosen spells only interact with magic numbers like spellcasting ability and saving throws.

There's a definite tendency toward abilities being chosen at the lowest atomicity level. Dunno if that's good or bad--but I've never heard a wizard complain.

Another tendency is that Skills tend to take over for classes as the choice gate for abilities when the latter is absent. Is there any reason not to do this when classless, or to do this even when there are classes? Is there ever a reason to have skills be a choice gate and not a numeric modifier for abilities, or vice versa?

In class-based systems, skills are largely vestigial, and prime to be replaced by Moves (a la PbtA). In classless, they seem essential still, at least as ability gates (but maybe for numbers too?). In System 7, the power skills also seemed to buoy the mundane skills, giving them a parallel gating structure (skill > maneuver, parallel to skill > power) and a consistent numeric system.

Really, this whole thing seems like a referendum on the move from 7.8 to 5eA (and it's various abortive successors). Was it worth it? What even were the goals?

Are classes worth bringing back? Let's assume that I create an awesome, perfect list of classes for every setting and game we play. We'd still have the problem that, in class-based systems, we don't need skills to provide powers (and maybe not even maneuvers), so we need to dump Skills. But without Skills, we don't really have core mechanics for...pretty much anything. Thus, we leave the door open for wacky magic numbers. 5eA tried to patch this, but while the result technically works, it's uninspiring.

But then again, don't they provide interesting guidelines for creating compelling content? The problem with the universal power list is, even if we assume that it's done and perfect, it removes any identity once possessed by druids, warlocks, etc. Everything is just a power. And yet, it's still too magic-flavored--it doesn't make much sense for psions in space, or vampires in London, or Armor Jockeys any time of day. The UPL is, by definition, all-inclusive, while classes are specific to a particular vision. Even 5e allows alternate classes, and plenty of folk play them with glee.

Can skills survive the return of classes, though? Perhaps, with the help of Moves. But it's clear that once classes return, they get to control all choice gating...which brings back the problem of how to determine mechanics.

Maybe there's a compromise: let's not have classes, but rather treat Skills the way we normally treat Classes. That is:

Undecided:

Quick stab:

???

The bigger question right now is: should there be 3 levels of

Attributes Skills Abilities
Numbers? Yes Yes1 No
Choice Gating Rarely When classless2 n/a
Atomicity n/a

Putting it all together (maybe)

So we've got:

files
  • (up)
  • (cur)
  • Advancement
  • Bounded Accuracy
  • Choices
  • Classless Classes
  • Damage Model
  • Decoupling Skills from Ability Scores
  • Hits v2
  • How many specific abilities should each trait grant
  • Inspiration
  • No More Mana
  • Range
  • Superclasses
  • The Blorg System
  • thoughts designing characters